Comments on: If I can prove Biblically that Peter was not the first pope or leader of the Catholic Church, is Crumble?

By: "Jo"

"Jo" — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:43 +0000

Catholics seem to believe that going to heaven because they are Catholics. Take into account the word of God instead of tradition. The Pope has the last word, either in Scripture or not. They believe that the Pope about the word of God. Pedro was not the first Pope and that has been established from the outset. The Bible never mentioned the name, nor say anything about a dad. Peter was a faithful servant to God and the rock that Jesus built his church. In my humble opinion, was an example of faith for the rest of us. Catholocism is a cult, IMO, and are not a true Christian faith. Any church that places the tradition of the Scriptures is not a true Christian faith. I also find it very disturbing that some Catholics read the Bible for themselves, they just accept what they preached and what is worse is that it seems that I speak for all Christians throughout the world, when most of us of the Christian faith did not accept the teachings of the Catholics. That do not dissolve, because they are too powerful and wealthy organization. But Jesus will have a few things to say to them some day and I am sure that the name Catholic to be very surprised to learn that theirs is not the true church of Christ!
The following is taken from an article by David L. Riggs, who put in much better condition;
The apostle Peter was a pope?
In the books of men, the following titles are used in connection with a man: "Pope", "Holy Father, Vicar of Christ, Supreme Pontiff." These are titles that rightly belong only to the Lord Jesus Christ and God the Father. Not a single instance in scripture where any of these titles apply to a man. The term "Holy Father" is used only once in the entire Bible, and is used by Jesus in the treatment of God the Father. (John 17:11)
Among the titles are above the bold assertion that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ. "A" vicar "is" One acts as a substitute or agent; permission to perform the functions of other higher office. "(Webster). When one searches the Bible from cover to cover, there is only one step that gives an indication of a vicar of Christ or God. It is 2 Thess. 2:3-4, which reads as follows:
"Let no one deceive you in any way for the Lord's day will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and is exalted above all that is called God or is worshiped, so that it sits in the temple of God and gives himself as if he were God. "
Some now argue that the religious man is saved by faith alone. However, there is only one passage in the entire Bible that has the word "faith" and "just" and said together, "not by faith only" (James 2:24). Catholics today speak of the Pope as vicar, taking the place of God (Christ is God, Matt. 1:23, John 1:1), but there is only one step in the entire Bible which speaks of a man doing such and is called the "man of sin."
Cardinal James Gibbons, a Catholic Archbishop said, "Jesus our Lord, founded but one Church, that He is pleased to take Peter. Therefore, any church that does not recognize Peter as its cornerstone is the Church of Christ, and therefore can not remain as it is not God's work. "(Faith of Our Fathers, p. 82). The apostle Paul said, "For other foundation can no man, but it has been established, which is Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 3:11). There is no other foundation but Christ! Therefore, any church that does not recognize Christ alone as the first stone may not be the church of Christ.
Catholic writers often speak of "the primacy of Peter" and "the primacy of the Pope." However, Col. 1:18, speaking of Christ, says, "And he is the head of body, the church, which is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that all things that can keep the lead. .. "Therefore, with reference to the authority in the church, the Lord Jesus Christ has primacy in all things. This leaves nothing for the Pope!
Catholics say the pope is the visible head of the church. Please note the following from Catholic sources:
"The pope, therefore, as vicar of Christ is the head of the kingdom of Christ on earth, the Church, which Christ Himself is the invisible head." (Answer correctly by Martin J. Scott, p. 49).
"According to the will of Christ, all its members profess the same faith, have the same worship and Sacraments, and are united under one head and the Pope." (Father Smith Instructs Jackson by John F . Noll and Lester J. Fallon, p. 42)
Catholic officials always use the word "visible" no doubt thinking that it eliminates the Pope's thinking is in opposition to the headship of Christ, and removes the apparent problem of having a church with two heads. However, the Scriptures nowhere teach the idea of a head seen and unseen. Jesus said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." (Matthew 28:18; Emp. D.R. mine).
Luke 17:20-21 says: "And when asked by the Pharisees," When is the kingdom of God come from? "He answered and said unto them, The kingdom of God is a surprise. Needless to say, 'Look, here it is,' or 'Look, there it is. "For behold the kingdom of God is within you. "The kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom and therefore needs only a spiritual leader or king.
Eph. 5:23-25 shows that Christ is the sole head of the church. "Let wives be subject to your husbands as to the Lord because the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is head of the Church of El Salvador is the body itself. But like the Church is subject to Christ, so also wives if their husbands in everything. "The woman is subject to her husband as the church is Christ. As the wife is subject to one head - her husband, the church is subject to one head - Christ. Like the husband does not send a substitute to rule over his wife, Christ does not authorize a surrogate to speak on his bride, the church.
Catholics often use the expression: "One fold and one shepherd" to sustain the doctrine of the papacy. (See Catholic Catechism for Adults, p. 59, q. 3). They teach that the "one shepherd" is the Pope and the lid represents the Catholic Church. Listen to what Jesus said about it:
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives his life for his sheep … I am the good shepherd, and I know mine and mine know me, even as the Father knows me and I know the Father, and I lay down my life for my sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and hear my voice, and there will be one flock and one shepherd. "(John 10:11, 14-16).
Jesus is a good shepherd. If one can understand that one and one equals two, we can understand this. If one is subject to Christ as a pastor - who is one. If an item is the Pope as the Pastor - the two!
The church is often compared to the human body in the Scriptures. Church members representing the different parts of the body. Christ is always said to the head. (See 1 Cor. 12:12-27, Eph. 1:22-23, 4:15-16). Our question is: "What part of the body is the Pope?" Besides, "How do you get the idea of a sub-head on the body?"
One of the major arguments against the primacy of Peter is the fact that the apostles had an argument between them as to which of them should be the highest. Observe the following:
"Now there is a dispute between them, which of them was reputed to be the greatest. But he said: "The kings of the Gentiles lord who on them, and those who exercise authority over them are called benefactors. But not so with you. Instead, let the greater among you be the youngest, who is head of the servant. "(Luke 22:24-26).
The very fact that the apostles had an argument between them shows that it understands that Peter was going to be prince. Moreover, when the argument was the night of the betrayal - the last night of the Lord's earthly ministry - and yet the apostles still did not understand that Christ had given Peter a position of primacy. The Lord settled the argument, not stating that he had already made Peter head, but by declaring that the Gentiles have their heads, "But not with you." Thus Jesus taught very clearly that no one would occupy any place as a benefactor (or Pope) to exercise authority over others.

By: mike t

mike t — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:43 +0000

I think somethings mischaracterized to prove his point. Original name was Simon Peter. Jesus could not have called Peter "Petra" (meaning large rock, which is female), because as you know, in Greek should be all adjectives agree in gender and case number.
Another problem with interpretation is the unanimous testimony of the manuscripts, the parallel passages in other Gospels, and the fixed belief of the literature pre-Constantine provide the surest evidence of the genuineness and untampered state the text of Matthew (cf. "Stimmen aus MariaLaach" I 1896.129 sqq. "Theologie und Glaube", II, 1910, 842 sqq.).
His difficulty with the Passion of Christ
On several occasions Peter speaks on behalf of the other Apostles (Matthew 15:15, 19:27, Luke 12:41, etc.). When Christ's words are addressed to all the Apostles, Peter answers in your name (eg Matthew 16:16). Often the Savior becomes especially to Peter (Matthew 26:40, Luke 22:31, etc.).
Very characteristic is the expression of true fidelity to Jesus, Peter, who has directed him in the name of the other Apostles. Christ, after he has spoken of the mystery of the reception of His Body and Blood (John 6:22 sqq.) And many of his disciples had left him, he asked the Twelve if they too must leave, Peter answer comes immediately "Lord to whom shall we go? has words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God "(Vulgate 'You are the Christ, the Son of God"). Christ Himself unmistakably Peter gives a special priority and first among the Apostles, and designates it for that on several occasions. Peter was one of the Apostles (with James and John) who were with Christ on certain occasions, raising the daughter of Jairus from the dead (Mark 5:37, Luke 8:51), the Transfiguration of Christ (Matthew 17: 1, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:28), the Agony in the Garden of Gethsemane (Matthew 26:37, Mark 14:33). On several occasions also Christ in favor of it, above all others, He comes into Peter's boat on Lake Genesareth to preach to the crowd on the shore (Luke 5:3) when he was miraculously walking on water He called Peter to come to Him in the lake (Matthew 14:28 sqq.) He sent him to the lake to catch fish in whose mouth Peter found the Stater like to pay tribute (Matthew 17:24 sqq.).
Despite this weakness, his position as head of the Apostles was later confirmed by Jesus, and his precedence was not less impressive after the Resurrection than before. Women, who were the first to find the empty tomb of Christ, received the angel a special message for Peter (Mark 16:7). To him alone of the Apostles of Christ in the first days after the resurrection (Luke 24:34, 1 Corinthians 15:5). But most importantly, when he appeared in Lake Genesareth Christ to Peter renewed his special commission to feed and defend His flock, after Peter has said three times his love for his Master (John 21 :15-17). In conclusion Christ foretold the violent death Peter would suffer and, therefore, invited him to follow him in a special way (John 21:20-23). This is called Peter and trained for the Apostleship and clothed with the primacy of the Apostles, who acted in a more clear after the Ascension of Christ in heaven.
St. Peter in Jerusalem and Palestine after the Ascension
Our information on the first apostolic activity of St. Peter in Jerusalem, Judea, and the districts stretching northwards as far as Syria is predominantly derived from the first portion of the Acts of the Apostles, and in parallel is confirmed by step in the statements of the Epistles of St. Paul.
Among the multitude of apostles and disciples who, after the Ascension of Christ into heaven from Mount Olivet, returned to Jerusalem to await the fulfillment of his promise to send the Holy Spirit, Peter is immediately evident that the leader of all and is henceforth constantly recognized as the leader of the Christian community in Jerusalem. He takes the initiative in the appointment to the Apostolic College of another witness of life, death and resurrection of Christ to replace Judas (Acts 1:15-26). After the descent of the Holy Spirit on the feast of Pentecost, Peter stood at the head of the Apostles, delivered the first public sermon to proclaim the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, and wins a large number of Jews who converted to Christian community (Acts 2:14-41). First of the Apostles he worked a miracle, when John went to the temple and heal the lame man at Gate Beautiful. The agglomeration of people in awe of the two apostles, who preached a long sermon on the Portico of Solomon, and brings new increase to the flock of believers (Acts 3:1-4:4).
In the subsequent consideration of the Apostles before the Jewish High Council, Peter defends undismayed dramatically and cause of Jesus and of the obligation and liberty of the Apostles to preach the Gospel (Acts 4:5-21). When Ananias and Sapphira attempt to deceive the apostles Peter and the people appear as a judge of their action, and God executes the sentence of punishment passed by the Apostle, causing sudden death of the two culprits (Acts 5:1-11). By numerous miracles God confirms the Apostolic activity of Christ's confessors, and there's also a special mention of Peter, as it is recorded that the inhabitants of Jerusalem and the neighboring towns brought their sick in their beds in the streets for the shadow of Peter falling on them and what can be healed (Acts 5:12-16). The increasing number of the faithful Jews caused the supreme council to take further measures against the Apostles, but "Peter and the Apostles" answer "must obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29 sqq. ). Not only in Jerusalem Peter was working on fulfilling the mission entrusted to him by his Master. Also, keep the relationship with other Christian communities in Palestine, and preached the Gospel both there and in the lands further north. When Philip the Deacon had won a large number of believers in Samaria, Peter and John were appointed to proceed beyond Jerusalem to organize the community and to invoke the Holy Spirit to descend upon the faithful. Peter appears a second time as judge in the case of Simon the magician, who wanted to buy from the Apostles the power that can also invoke the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:14-25). On his way back to Jerusalem, the two Apostles preached the joyous news of the Kingdom of God. Later, after the departure of Paul to Jerusalem and the conversion before Damascus, the Christian communities in Palestine were left in peace by the Jewish council.
Peter now missionary undertook an extensive tour that took him to the maritime cities, Lydda, Joppa and Caesarea. In Lydda Eneas to cure paralysis in Joppa raised Tabitha (Dorcas) from the dead, and at Caesarea, instructed by a vision he had in Joppa, the baptized and received into the Church the first non-Jewish Christians, the centurion Cornelius and their relatives (Acts 9:31-10:48). Pedro's return to Jerusalem, a little later, the strict Jewish Christians who believed that the full observance of Jewish law as binding on all, asked him why he had entered and eaten in the house of the uncircumcised. Peter spoke of his vision and defends his action, which was ratified by the Apostles and the faithful in Jerusalem (Acts 11:1-18).
A confirmation of the position to Peter by Luke in the Acts, offers the testimony of St. Paul (Galatians 1:18-20). After his conversion, and three years' residence in Arabia, Paul went to Jerusalem to see Peter. " Here, the Apostle of the Gentiles clearly designates Peter as the authorized head of the Apostles and the early Christian Church. Pedro long residence in Jerusalem and Palestine soon came to an end. Herod Agrippa I began (AD 42-44) a new persecution of the Church in Jerusalem, after the execution of James, the son of Zebedee, this ruler had Peter cast into prison, intending that he also executed after The Passover was over. Peter, however, was freed in a miraculous way, and proceed to the house of the mother of John Mark, where many of the faithful gather for prayer, informed them of his release from the hands of Herod, to communicate the fact that James and the brothers, and then left to go to Jerusalem "another place" (Acts 12:1-18). As for San Pedro de la activity after not receiving more connected to the information from existing sources, but have short announcements of a number of episodes of his later life.
Missionary journeys in the East, Council of the Apostles
Luke does not tell us where was Peter after his release from prison in Jerusalem. Incidental statements we know that later made extensive missionary tours in the East, although it gives no clue to the chronology of his travels. It is true that remained for a time in Antioch, which may even have returned there several times. The Christian community of Antioch was founded by Christianized Jews who had been expelled from Jerusalem by persecution (Acts 11:19 sqq.). Pedro residence among them is demonstrated by the episode concerning the observance of the Jewish ceremonial law even by Christianized pagans, related by St. Paul (Galatians 2:11-21). The head of the apostles in Jerusalem - the "pillars", Peter, James and John - had unreservedly approved St. Paul's ministry to the Gentiles, while they intended to manpower primarily among the Jews. While Paul was dwelling in Antioch (the date can not be ac

By: Misty

Misty — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:43 +0000

Wow, its interpretation and assumptions are so far away it is difficult to even know where to start. Because you think you have used an incomplete understanding of the papacy, then pull a few verses of the Bible, that Jesus is making a play on words (it says?), Decided that because Paul is not mentioned in a letter Peter, because the New Testament does not mention that the Pope … do all this unrelated things together and reach a not an unproven theory.
First, Jesus spoke Aramaic, which would have been "Peter" and Peter Rock. So when Jesus says that in reality, he said: "You are Peter and on this Cefas I build my church." There is a play on words that you assume.
Catholics agree that the cornerstone of the Church is Christ. Without Christ, the role of Peter as the first Pope and head of the Catholic Church would not. But because Christ refers to himself in other places as a foundation, head, and so does not detract from the fact that He instituted his Church, giving the keys to Peter. Read Isaiah 22 and find that the delivery of the keys is significant. This means the transfer of authority and responsibility. Which argues that the key is the "master of the palace until the master returns. He has the authority. So, in reality, Christ was Peter the head of the office of the Church until his return. This office continues to maintain that authority because Christ has not returned yet. Papa is not the word used in the first place, so it means nothing that is not mentioned. It has little to do with the authority of the office he held Peter.
Just because Paul is not welcome in the letter of Peter, does not mean anything. It takes a lot of assumptions to believe that Peter did not mention anything means. We do not have enough information to make that leap.
Why did Paul not write that Peter was elected? Why him? I did not know his writings are used to prove or disprove something. He was writing a letter to the Christians to encourage them in their faith and teach them. The town was most probably written knew Peter was the head, and need not be told.
The Church has never claimed that the Pope as a man, is infallible and perfect. Peter as a man is not perfect, that we have much evidence of the Bible. However, because of their faith and love of Christ, became the rock upon which Christ built his Church.
The Pope is not the doctrine. Doctrine of the Church, all stem from the church in which parents, leaders, and Pope discuss, pray, research, and decide. Christ promised the Holy Spirit does not leave us and that Holy Spirit has guided the Catholic Church since the days of Pentacost. Do you think you lied to Christ and the Holy Spirit did leave his church? Christ promised the gates of hell shall not prevail against it … and that promise has remained well.
Their hypothesis does not prove anything. There is much more evidence for than against the papacy. http://www.fisheaters.com/rock.htmlhttp://members.aol.com/joyinliving7/keys…http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/peter.htm…http://www. fisheaters.com / papolatry.html

By: paula p(born again)

paula p(born again) — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:43 +0000

you are right, but shall not make a difference for a Catholic.
Jesus is the rock.

By: kicking4

kicking4 — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:42 +0000

I do not think the Catholic Church is the church founded by Jesus Christ. I think the way the Romans with their hierarchy became part of the church's hierarchy. I do not think the pope is better than any other human. Also, I do not think that anyone who serves God as priests, and it has to maintain abstinence from marriage and sex. I think it remains unique, and Paul, and said it would be better, does not mean you had to, otherwise, how else could populate the world. Prevention of marriage, prevention is the beginning of time, with Adam and Eve, and God said to be fruitful and multiply.
I do not think the church was founded by Jesus exists today in the exact form. I think some are closer than others, but like human beings, the church is not perfect.

By: bookish

bookish — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:42 +0000

Wow, Jon, who is brilliant. You, all by yourself, after 2000 years, have destroyed the Catholic Church. You should be very proud.
Of course, the problem is that you are using the Bible, a book of fiction, so I think it just fell to his religion. Sorry.

By: Ninja Turtle AM (忍者乌龟、无神论者的佛教徒）

Ninja Turtle AM (忍者乌龟、无神论者的佛教徒） — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:42 +0000

What gives you the idea Emperor Constantine did not notice when he ordered a compilation of the Bible?
If Jesus is real, why did Paul have to write even any part of the New Testament? Why is a fact that even a single word was written by the person of Jesus?

By: xomprehe

xomprehe — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:42 +0000

The Catholic Church, meeting in the New Testament is quoted. If the Catholic Church is "false start" and "collapses" like you say, what to do to the New Testament? Catch 22.
This is where Pope Damasus I commissioned the publication of the Bible, once and for all that the 27 books together. Before that, there are many books that were thrown around to writing as NT.

By: monky_bi

monky_bi — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:42 +0000

1. Jesus acts through the potato, which can be both figurative head of the church
2. Everyone in the early Church recognized the See of Peter in Rome as the central authority of Christian doctrine
3. If Peter was not the Pope and the entire church collapses, then everything falls apart Christianity. Fortunately, Peter was the first Pope and the Church remains true despite the demons continue to rail against it.

By: SirWilli

SirWilli — Thu, 07 May 2009 03:09:42 +0000

… Write your references are correct … collapse but nothing … the first "9" popes were Jews! leading to the "Catholic" (universal) is the faith that some of the "men of old Rome" became the disenchantment with the Jews who were running the faith (known as El Camino) and kicked out … (Constantine and entering lot of monsters) and the rest is history …