Comments on: What do the Scriptures Catholics depend for their belief in the Second Chance (purgatory)?

By: Jackie R

Jackie R — Tue, 26 May 2009 09:17:44 +0000

Purgatory is in the Bible?
The concept of purgatory is one that most of our Protestant brothers and sisters find repulsive and almost no evidence. "It is in the Bible," we are challenged and, of course, the word purgatory is not in the Bible. But then again, neither are the words Trinity and Incarnation. However, there is a scriptural basis for purgatory. The tradition of prayer for the dead (which indicates that they are not yet in total union with God in heaven) goes back to the Old Testament in the Book of Maccabees: "[Judas Maccabeus] made a collection among its soldiers … sent to Jerusalem to offer sacrifice to atoning. Thus, acting in an excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in sight, because if they are not expected the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless to pray for them in death " (2 Mac 12:43 and following, italics added).
Why is Purgatory?
Purgatory is a very important teaching because it helps us understand, as clearly as is humanly possible, which means having a relationship with God and how the consequences of our sins at the expense of the perfect relationship with God-the sky.
You will find that other Christian denominations struggle with this doctrine of "purification." They believe that Jesus died for all sins, but they tend to view human nature a little more negatively than Roman Catholics.
Therefore, they say that if you accept Jesus' saving death, all your sins are covered in white snow covers the garbage. (This was the image of Martin Luther.) With this, you simply go straight to heaven. For some Christians, the belief is that once you are saved, we can not lose salvation, no matter what you do. According to these beliefs, there are average and there is no reason to purgatory.
But our Catholic faith insists that half (purgatory) is essential because, as free human beings (as we are wounded) who remain responsible for our sins and with God's help, you can do something.
God comes to us as adults and must have our sins and face as crimes against God's goodness. We need to understand what it really means to sin, and this can only be done after death. Not that the death of Jesus is not enough. It did for us. However, we are associated with Jesus as it allows the ultimate perfect union with God to take place.
What prevents the perfect union? It is part of our sin that prevents the perfect marriage and that is what is purgatory: healing unforgiven sin in our souls and no apparent aspect of our personal sins already forgiven. Which is not mortal sin, not prevent the union we have with God through sanctifying grace, but our perfect union with God, that's what heaven is: "Therefore, be perfect as your Father is perfect heaven "(Mt 5: 48).
One final note is important to realize that those who die without mortal sin are truly saved. They know it. Knowledge that are enthusiastic, and can never be taken away from them. That are saved and are in union with God by sanctifying grace, but still not perfect or complete.

By: Leeka

Leeka — Tue, 26 May 2009 09:17:44 +0000

Leek're good.
I committed a horrible crime, and wanted to leave with her, I am looking for someone like you to defend me.

By: hunter

hunter — Tue, 26 May 2009 09:17:44 +0000

Purgatory is not about second chances. Christianity is.
"But if someone's work is burned up, it will suffer a loss, the person is saved, but only through fire." 1 Cor 3:15
"Thus the authenticity of their faith, more precious than gold which is perishable evidence, though by fire, may be praise, glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 1:7
Is it perfect now? Most people would say no.
Will it be perfect in heaven? Most people believe so.
Purgatory (or purgation) is the process of God's love changing our imperfect beings themselves perfect. Depending on the amount of change required by different people can be a little easier or process. Everyone in purgatory is on its way to heaven. I do not think Mother Teresa of Calcutta had a very hard time of it.
With love in Christ.

By: imacatho

imacatho — Tue, 26 May 2009 09:17:44 +0000

the Catholic Church does not teach the concept of purgatory more. And most Catholics do not believe in it.
I would not say that purgatory was a "second chance". Was a "holding" place where the dead go before they went to heaven or hell. the idea was, if the person had been a respected, charitable person, his soul is receiving a lot of prayers and then go to heaven, but if you do not get enough prayers, then that would go to hell.
the Catholic Church under Pope John Paul 2 decided that it was not right, and stop teaching.

By: charmedg

charmedg — Tue, 26 May 2009 09:17:44 +0000

I hope this helps:
After a state of death and suffering of forgiveness
Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 - Jesus teaches us: "Come to terms with your opponent or you will be given to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not leave until you have paid the last penny. "The word" rival "(antidiko) is probably a reference to the devil (see the same word for the devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) which is an accuser against man (see Job 1.6-12; Zac. 3.1 ; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, to be held in a temporary state called a prison, and not leave until they have fulfilled all our debt to God. This "prison" is purgatory where not leave until the last penny is paid.
Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are just a perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.
Matt. 12:32 - Jesus says, "And whoever says a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this world or the next." Jesus therefore, clearly states that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase "the next" (from the Greek "to mellonti") generally refers to the other (see, for example, Mark 10.30, Luke 18.30; 20,34-35; Eph. 1.21 to similar wording). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This demonstrates that there is another state after death, and the Church of 2000 years this state has called Purgatory.
Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there is no shock, and hell no longer live with the Master.
Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of their place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God in Hell and those who are deprived of the grace of God for all eternity. Where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.
1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people baptized in the name of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized in the name of the dead so the dead can be raised). They can not be in heaven because they are still with sin, but can not be in hell because their sins can not be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so they can be forgiven their sins.
Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven on earth, and under the earth, "which is the kingdom of the righteous dead, or purgatory.
2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Paul is dead Onesiphorus but calls for mercy on him that day. "Paul's use of" that day "demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, eg, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8, 3.13, 5.5, 2 Cor. 1.14, Phil. 1.6,10, 2.16, 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8, 2 Thess. 2.2,3, 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.
Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs in our lifetime and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.
Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. Not necessarily arrive perfect. It makes perfect after his death. But those are already in heaven is perfect, and those in hell can not be perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.
1 Peter 3:19, 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in "prison". These are the souls of the righteous to be purified for the beatific vision.
Rev. 21:4 - God wipe away their tears, and no grief or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the death of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of the tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God does not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls suffer purgatory.
Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word "dirty" comes from the Greek word "koinon" which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean and must be purified before entering heaven. It is surprising how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of God's mercy. If there is no purgatory, this also means you can not salvation for most people. In fact, God is merciful.
Luke 23:43 - many Protestants argue that since Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, no purgatory. There are several replicas. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise" that does not mean the sky. Paradise, the Hebrew "sheol," meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but that is captive to the Lord's resurrection. Secondly, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus' statement "I say to you today will be with me in paradise" does not mean that there was a comma after the first word "you". This means that Jesus could have said, "I say to you today, that will be with me in paradise" (ie, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was "today" or "now" and that sometime in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Thirdly, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life - perhaps by a bloody and repentant death - could be ready for admission into the sky).
Gen. 50:10, Num. 20:29, Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices is the prayer that frees the souls of her painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.
Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are superfluous and unnecessary in heaven in hell. These dead are in purgatory.
Zac. 9:11 - God, through the blood of his covenant, shall be set free from the water pool, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.
2 macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and who in the hell can not be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the old teaching of purgatory. As a result, took charge of the Maccabees in the Bible.
After the death of purification by fire
Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in the sky, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).
1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works have been lost, but the person is still saved. Paul refers to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned after death, but the person is brought to salvation. This state after death can not be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is forgiveness and salvation).
1 Cor. 3:15 - "If any man's work burn, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only through fire." The phrase "suffer loss" in Greek is "zemiothesetai" ;. The root word is "zemioo" which also refers to punishment. The construction zemiothesetai "is used in the former. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew "Anash" which means "punish" or "penalty"). Therefore, this verse shows that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This can not mean the sky (there is no punishment in heaven) and this can not mean hell (the possibility of sin no longer exists and the person is not saved).
1 Cor. 3:15 - In addition, Paul writes "he himself will be saved," but only "(or" so ") and the fire." "He will be saved" in Greek is "sothesetai" (which means eternal salvation). The phrase "but only" (or "tan") in Greek is "hout", meaning "the same way." This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved from the same way by the fire.
1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man's work by fire and purifying him, this purification refers to his sins (not only their good deeds). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was writing only about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing a man and purification of sins would be admitting that there a purgatory).
Corinthians 1. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death about punishing sin. That is, destroy the temple of God is a bad job, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of the law (v.14), state of venial sin (V.15) and the state of mortal sin (V.17), all which are judged after death.
1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter was referred to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.
Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched from the flames. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.
Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as it refines the gold that loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death, because Jesus, who spoke from the sky, gives the white dress of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).
Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many purified themselves are white and refined.
Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.
Sir 2:5 - for gold is tested in fire, and acceptable for men in the furnace of humiliation.
Zac. 13:8-9 - God says 2 / 3 will perish, and 1 / 3 was left alive, into the fire, and refined as silver and tested like gold. Those who die go to hell, and there is need for improvement in the sky, so it is being refined in purgatory.
Mal. 3:2-3 - God also refers to the purification of the righteous in their death.
There's more where that came.