Christians (Catholics and Protestants), please help me with this Bible question?
Hello, brothers and sisters in Christ,
I found a bit of confusion of the Scriptures. Could you give your opinion, please?
Isaiah 7:14-16 says:
14 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with children and have a child, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 "He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good.
16 "For before the child will know enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you fear will be abandoned."
OK now, he's prophesying the birth of Jesus, but what confuses me is that obviously there is time before the child is old enough to eat regular food, he does not know right from wrong. And God said way back in Genesis 2:17,
"17 But the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, because the day ye eat thereof you shall surely die."
Now, I can only imagine two possibilities (please let me know if you see any other) or Isaiah talking exclusively about Jesus, or he is doing a more general reference on a normal stage of childhood that his listeners would expect that familiar.
So if Isaiah speaking of Jesus only, does not this mean that Jesus, in childhood, not knowing right from wrong? If so, then I think that this can only mean that Jesus was born without a sinful nature inherited from Adam and Eve. But how can this be, since he was the son of Mary, a mortal woman? Is this how some people (Catholic?) Claim that Mary was without sin? But how could she * * without sin when descended from Adam and Eve, like the rest of us?
- OR —
If you were talking about children in general (the verse text 'seems to support this view, but perhaps only me), can this be suggesting that there is a time in childhood when all the children have not yet " ; eaten of the tree "and actually are without sin themselves? But how can it be, if we are all inherently sinful since the fall? My intuition is that babies can differentiate rare pleasant and unpleasant, but not between good and evil. How does this square with the idea of original sin? Infante-polemicists baptism may be able to help here.
Thanks .. much God bless you, and have a great weekend!
P.S. My quotations are from the NIV Bible.
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Hello! Great question! Well, here is how verse 15 says, in the RV-"eat curds and honey, so that they reject evil and choose good." I'm not sure how eating vegetables could help Jesus to reject the evil and choose good, I read in my Bible information below that these foods represent a simple diet of Judea in the time immediately after the Assyrian invasion verses the normal diet of bread and wine before the invasion. I think the wording "so you know …," was not rejected at the present time itself seems to be in the jargon of prophecy and tense, and the next verse 16 - says," before the child shall know to refuse evil and choose good, the land that you dread will be deserted by its two kings. "(KJV)
I think that this meant before the child reaches the age of maturity in Jewish culture was 13 (Bar-age mitvah). The moment a child became a man, literally, a son of the commandments. (O son of mitzvots = Son of God Law / Torah). Then you get the idea:). PS: Verse 22 - states, "This will be the abundance of milk they give, they will eat curds, cottage cheese and everyone is going to eat the honey that is left on earth." This is not "he" is necessarily refer to Jesus and that is not capitalized, but refers to "everyone," left on earth. I think this curd and honey refers to a moment of weakness compared with a time of blessing and fat. (Read verse 21), probably also escape the way that Jesus had a very meager beginning for us! Because of poverty and put the sinful flesh to humble himself and later to be honored and exalted beyond measure Hallelluia! I just have a little excited there lol! Jesus Awesome, I love You!
Jesus was half God, half mortal. The apperared and human, but inside his mind was always holy and right. Sinless. He was essentially pure from birth.
That's a tough question. My guess is that Jesus did not inherit original sin despite being born a woman.
Do you think we are all going to read this …. I mean … Really?
The text speaks of a child's diet at a particular age, and uses diet and age as a sign to King Ahaz king of Syria and the king of Israel shall not prevail against the kingdom of Judah, but are themselves desolate.
In modern terms, of speaking that would be comparable to say, before the age of reason, I think.
The reasoning behind the assertion that Catholic Mary was born without original sin that God Himself is the implementation of all the benefits of the death and resurrection of Christ to his soul while still in the womb, but the rest of us inherit the original sin of our first parents.
For a more in-depth explanation of this, please go to this link; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.h …
God bless you too.
A very interesting question. He was referring to Jesus. You're right. The thing is to look at the text that says choose good or evil. It was not until he grew older he took a position of what was right. There is a difference between not knowing. He was still a human child, while on earth and subject to learn from their earthly parents. As he grew older he learned more on his own. I remember the incident when he was 12 years old and his parents lost track of him and found the temple of reading and talking to the "older men".
How could he be without sin if a woman had been born imperfect. Simple, because they believe. If your father Lord was able to take the life of the mighty angel who was his only begotten son in the womb of Mary, would not have the power through his Holy Spirit to protect him from his inherited imperfection?
Really good question. I enjoyed thinking about it.
Hi,
Many theologians have different opinions about Jesus and how it came about divinity. Some say he was born knowing everything, and would have been able to read my mind and know where it came from if I was returning from a time machine. He knows that JFK's murderer etc. Others say no, there were many more human qualities than we think and the realization of his divinity and his relationship with God (one of the 3 persons) occurred gradually, as grew to maturity. Even then, he said two things that make me think the latter:
1) At the end of the world that did not know, only the Father in Heaven
2) His moments of doubt and pain in both the Garden and the cross
(Father, why hast thou forsaken me?)
Also, if you were born and had all the knowledge of the world, good and evil from day one, it would be a living God and should not expect the rest of us to live up to its teachings of faith, knowing what is real and that is beyond, without doubt, while we know that no physical evidence of God and have the most to lose in the material sense.
Since Jesus was the guy who would not therefore expect us to do what he could do for himself, I'd say it was much more human than some people think that with many of our limitations in knowledge initially.
Cheers,
Michael Kelly
This is the last.
Matt. 18:10-11 says that all children have guardian angels in constant contact with God. In 1 Cor. 7:14 Paul writes that even children of mixed marriages are sanctified by the believing spouse. In Romans 7:9 Paul wrote that there was life until he came to the commandment. Then, sin revived and died. That means that before reaching the age at which it was accountable to the law, they had eternal life.
These passages provide ample evidence of the fact that children and others who lack the mental capacity to fully understand the message of salvation belongs to God.
So I belong to God from birth until the age of reason. Just then cut loose and must choose to return to God. If they do, then they are of God again. In other words, return to the same position they had before they cut loose.
I think Isaiah is talking about Jesus, because He was miraculously conceived, making it very special, and sin can not influence it. Mary was mortal and vulnerable to sin, I am not sure whether he did or not, but I'm pretty sure she did it because we are all sinners and I do not think there's a verse that says no / no sin.
The Catholic belief is that all of us, including Mary, the need for a Savior, because of our fallen nature and that no one can reach heaven without His blood. We are saved from our fallen nature by grace through faith in charity work.
Mary, however, because God knew how I would use the free will he did to her, was saved by his grace, to have a fallen nature in the moment of conception. (The Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary)
He was rescued from the womb of his mother, a planned act from Genesis 3, so that could act as the New Eve and for Christ to be born of the ship even more pure than the Ark of the Covenant.
Christ would not have born that is unclean! God knew Mary's willingness to serve, even before it was conceived. He knew he was going to say yes to God, and God saved her for the first time.
Check out the Gospel of Thomas child: http://www.gnosis.org/library/inftoma.ht …