What, pray to the saints? The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.
I find it strange to see the objections that some Christians are not Catholic to Catholic devotion to saints. This also seems an organic continuation of Judaism, and the support of Jewish scripture and tradition. If the Catholic devotion to saints is really a veiled form of idolatry, as is sometimes erroneously suggested, it should be more offensive to biblical Judaism as any other religious system, as it was the Jews who received the honor to present to all of mankind worship the one true God, to the exclusion of all other gods or "idols", for the first time in history. The rejection of idolatry is in the heart of God's revelation to the Jews. There are over a hundred eager prohibitions against idolatry in the Jewish scriptures, including, of course, the first of the Ten Commandments: "I am the Lord your God, have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:2 -3 ).
If someone objects to the veneration of saints as a form of idolatry, is the Jews. However, a deep veneration of saints permeates Scripture in which it is the prohibition of idolatry. God, even identified with reference to the largest Jewish holy, the three patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (later called Israel). Asked by Moses that He is, he replies, "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." (Exodus 3:6).
Abraham is considered the first and largest of the Jewish holy rightly held by the Jews in the highest veneration, because all the blessings God promised for all eternity for the Jews came to the Jews only because they were the descendants of Abraham.
The same principles can be applied in understanding the veneration of Catholic saints.
As Jews we must worship Abraham as the source of all blessings, certainly not least to all Christians should worship Mary as the source of all his family. For as a God of Abraham pleasingness that brought the Jewish blessing, so it was Mary pleasingness allowing God's greatest blessing known to mankind - the birth of God and man, Jesus - to come around.
The sheer decency would demand that the Jews venerate Abraham, Mary and Christian, if only by gratitude for the blessings we enjoy as a result of the virtue of these saints.
In prayer, it is customary for Jews to refer to God as the "God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel."
The Catholic prayers to Jesus embellished with references to Mary what he is doing the same as the Jew who makes repeated reference to Abraham - reminding God of his love for the person appointed, and laying some say that the love as his / her offspring. And since Abraham is the father of the Jews, and Mary, the adoptive mother of all followers of Jesus, they respect not only the fulfillment of the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother." (Exodus 20:12)
Another aspect of Catholic devotion to the saints who is sometimes called the criticism is typical of Catholics to pay attention to the bodies of "dead" saints. However, this form of devotion is also familiar to the Jews and the Jewish scriptures. The burial site of the three patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has been consistently revered by Jews since the death of four thousand years ago. As Catholics on a pilgrimage to the tombs of the "dead" saints (sometimes locked in the church) to pray for Jews, both in biblical times and even today.
- And thin people that Catholics Worship Mary and saints?
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Hello, Cashelmara,
The misunderstanding about "prayer" to the saints is derived from the ambiguity of the word "pray". Several centuries ago, meant simply pray asking. Today, pray means "having a conversation with God."
Therefore, a better way to phrase the question is, can we ask the saints to help? I doubt anyone will not make us any Christian saint here on earth for help. Christians are constantly asking other Christians for prayer, for walks, to help with the music, to get answers to questions.
The only question is if we ask the saints in heaven for help. The charge of necromancy, says Catholics are speaking with the dead. But Jesus emphatically denied that the saints are dead, and cited three Hebrew of the Old Testament saints (Matthew 22:31-32):
"But the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God has said: 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob?" He is not God but of the living dead .
Since the saints are alive in heaven, we can ask prayers, like any other Christian, with this added thought from James 5:16:
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that ye may be healed. The prayer of the righteous man is powerful and effective.
Cheers,
Bruce
I think the big misconception is the use of the word Ore. Protestant automatically hear "worship" when you say "pray."
I prefer to say we ask for their intercession.
Protestants just love to protest against everything Catholic. without rhyme or reason. This is how they see their purpose in life. Protest is a long tradition among Protestants.
I agree. I guess that we all need all the help we can get.
is of course right, but unfortunately still very sadly some come with one thing or another and not what the church teaches is not even what Scripture teaches us. confuse saying how they call themselves "Bible Christians", but c'est la vie. OU sepersted hope brothers and sisters in Christ is the ride home, if not still in our prayers. and no I'm not saying that Catholics can be saved only, never teaching of the Church but the Catholic Church is the fullnes of truth.
today i read a question about saving once …….. Does not this mean that the person making the decision to be saved and not the decision of Jesus ……… only a passing thought.
Praying to the saints, it makes sense to me. They are with us in the body of Christ. One in him are family. Some objects are dead, but they are not in a sense, more full of life then? Those who see God face to face in the beatific vision? Those who possess the Author of Life?
I think it's a beautiful tradition and reality. Even death can not separate any of those who love God. We are one in Him who is Love itself. That is the essence of the intercession of the saints.
"And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage of the bush, how God told him:" I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? "He is not God of the dead but of the living … ' "(Mark 12:26-27)
"Pray at all times in the Spirit with all prayer and supplication. To this end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all saints, and for me … "(Ephesians 6:18).
"Therefore, since we are surrounded such a great cloud of witnesses, we must also put aside every weight and sin that so easily entangles us …", (Hebrews 12:1).
"And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints …" (Revelation 5 : 8).
First, it is wrong to say that the practice of praying for others is not a biblical foundation, you know that we are taught in Scripture to a life of prayer for others, it is part of God's commandment to love one another .
(2 Corinthians 5:8 DRB), but we are safe and have a willingness to be absent in the body and be present with the Lord.
The Catholic Church teaches that it is absolutely necessary for one to seek the intercession of the saints for salvation. The Church teaches that prayer to God is necessary for salvation for all believers. For a Catholic who would be a mistake to ignore the liturgical worship offered to God in the days of feast of Saints and prayers to ask for her intercession.
The Communion of Saints is an ancient church dogma and is registered in the Apostles' Creed. It simply says that the faithful because of his relationship with Christ is alive, even after the death of his flesh and worship with us. For us, the Church is composed of the Church Militant which represents all believers live their hope in the flesh.
(Phi 2:12 DRB) Therefore, my beloved, (as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence), with fear and trembling work out your salvation.
(Phi 2:13 DRB) For it is God who worketh in you both to will and carry out, according to his good pleasure.
This is the Church who are suffering and those who are temporarily in need of further purification of sin so they can enjoy God's presence.
(2MA DRB 12:46) Therefore, it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead, who are free from sins.
Finally, the communion of Saints consists of those who have won the race:
(Phi 3:14 DRB) I press toward the mark, the prize of the supernatural vocation of God in Christ Jesus.
Their immortal souls are in heaven in God's presence:
(Rev 5:8 DRB) And when he opened the book, the four living creatures and the elders fell down before the Lamb, each one of them harps and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
The universal current that connects all of God's creation is His love that we made at our baptism in our path to sainthood. This is not emotional, but a desire placed in us by the Spirit of God remains a desire for other people than ourselves and that love extends even to our enemies. This is really a love that comes only from God and is an alien and meaningless to those who have not received God's saving grace. This desire in our souls do not end with the death of our flesh, but continues in eternity where the saints through her intercession in prayer, encourage us in our career and help us to endure until the union with God.
I think some people of faith who do not understand the Communion of Saints, somehow I think that asking saints to pray for us is to withdraw our love or our trust in God. It is indeed impossible, if you really love as God commands and has given us the grace to understand, not to pray to those we love and yet we expect them to return the same love that we pray for ourselves and present our prayers to God .
In Christ
Fr Joseph
He prays directly to God and in the name of Jesus, not saints …
There is one mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus.
Do not you know that all believers in Jesus are saints? There are living saints, who pray for each other. Not the dead. Unable to communicate with the dead.
Read John 17
Since Jesus prayed a prayer of intercession for us! He is the only way to the Father, no one else, heaven or earth!
Those who have died in grace are not really "dead" are our beloved in heaven or in purgatory (on its way to heaven) and ever shall be, world without end, part of the Communion of Saints - The Church Triumphant (the saints in heaven, whether or not they are beatified or canonized), the Church Suffering (the saints in Purgatory), and the Church Militant (the saints on earth).
Because we can not know, apart from the Church has beatified or canonized, which is already in Heaven, who is in purgatory for a while, or is convicted, we pray for the dead for the rest of our lives - whether assumed to be in Purgatory, while hoping that they are in heaven and not condemned.
We also ask those who have died to pray for us.
This is not Four to the Jews as my catecuest say. Was a Jew who became Catholic.
Look under the truth shall make you free. Choose a title below.
Praying to Saints
The historic Christian practice of asking our departed brothers and sisters in Christ, the saints for their intercession has come under attack in the last hundred years. Though the practice dates back to the early days of Christianity and is shared by Catholics, Orthodox and other Eastern Christians, Anglicans and even some which means that everyone says is shared by more than three quarters of Christians in the land , is still under heavy attack from many within the Protestant movement that began in the sixteenth century.
You can hear us?
Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered are not directed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. However, this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers, even when not directed at them!
In any case, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven actively intercede for us. John tells us explicitly that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and can not physically be offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding
A mediator
However, making a person to pray for you in any way violates the mediation of Christ, as seen from considering the manner in which Christ is the mediator. First, Christ is the only mediator between God and man because it is the only person who is God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But the mediator is not compromised in the slightest by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is the only mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Hebrews 9:15, 12:24) and Moses was the mediator (Mesitas Greek) Old Testament (Galatians 3: 19 -20).
The intercession of fellow Christians-which is what the saints in heaven are also clearly does not interfere with the unique mediation of Christ, because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should Interceed: "First, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings for all men, kings and all those in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and come to know the truth "(1 Tim. 2:1-4). Clearly then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God," is not impairing the function of Christ as mediator.
"No contact with the dead"
Sometimes Fundamentalists object to asking our fellow Christians in heaven to pray for us, declaring that God has forbidden contact with the dead in passages such as Deuteronomy 18:10-11. In fact, he has not, because sometimes he has given, for example, when I was Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matthew 17:3). What God has forbidden the practice of necromancy, conjuring spirits. "no one be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination, a soothsayer or an augur, or sorcerer, or a charmer, or spirits, or a magician or a magician …. Because these nations you will dispossess, listen to soothsayers and diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted to do so. The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, your brothers, what is heard "(Deuteronomy 18:10-15).
God thus indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for the purpose of obtaining information: one is to look to God's prophets instead. Thus, it is to hold a seance. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to talk to the dead through you and your son humbly saying at the tomb of his mother, "Mom, please , pray to Jesus for me, I'm having a real problem at this time. "The difference between the two is the difference between day and night. One of them is an occult practice bent on getting secret information, and the other is a humble request of a loved one to pray to God on his account.
Overlooking the obvious
Some objections to the concept of praying to the saints betray restricted notions of heaven. One comes from anti-Catholic Loraine Boettner:
"So how can a human being such as Mary hear the prayers of millions of Roman Catholics in many different countries, praying in many different languages all at the same time?
"Let no priest or lay person try to converse with only three people at a time and see how impossible it is for a human being …. The objections against prayers to Mary apply equally against prayers to the saints. For they too are only creatures, infinitely less than God, able to stay in one place at a time and do one thing at a time.
"So, how can they listen and respond to thousands of petitions made simultaneously in many different terrains and in many different languages? Many requests are expressed, not orally, but only mentally, silently. How can Mary and the saints, without being like God, be present everywhere and know the secrets of all hearts? "(Roman Catholicism, 142-143).
If you are in heaven were like being in the room next door, of course these objections would be valid. A mortal, person in the room next unglorified indeed suffer the restrictions imposed by space and time to work in our universe. But saints are not in the next room, and are not subject to the limitations of time / space of this life.
This does not imply that the saints in heaven therefore must be omniscient as God is, it is only through God who wants to communicate with others in heaven or us. And the argument Boettner on requests that come in different languages is even further from the mark. Does anyone really believe that in heaven the saints are restricted to English of the King? After all, it is God who gives the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues. Without doubt, the saints in Revelation understand the prayers that have proven to be an offering to God.
The problem here is one of what might be called a primitive or even childish vision of heaven. It is certainly not one in which enough intellectual rigor has been exercised. A good introduction to the real implications of the afterlife can be found in Frank Sheed's book Theology and Sanity, which argues that mental health depends on an accurate perception of reality, and includes an accurate assessment of what the sky really is. And once known, the place of prayer to saints as follows.
"Straight to Jesus"
Some may concede that the previous objections to asking the saints for their intercession do not work and may even concede that the practice is allowed in theory, however, the question arises that on other grounds, asking why one would want to ask the saints to pray for one. "Why not pray directly to Jesus?" wonder.
The answer: "Of course one should pray directly to Jesus!" But that does not mean it's not good to ask others to pray for one too. Ultimately, the "go-directly-to-Jesus" objection boomerangs back to him who makes it: Why should we ask any Christian, in heaven or on earth to pray for us when we can ask directly Jesus? If the mere fact that we can go straight to Jesus proved that we should ask no Christian in heaven to pray for us then also prove that we should ask no Christian in the world to pray for us.
Praying for others is simply part of what Christians do. As we have seen, in 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Paul strongly encourages Christians to intercede for many different things, and that the move is not unique in his writings. Elsewhere Paul directly asks others to pray for him (Rom. 15:30-32, Eph. 6:18-20, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, 2 Thess. 3:1), and assured them he was praying for them as well (2 Thess. 1:11). More fundamentally, Jesus himself required us to pray for others, not only for those who asked us to do (Matthew 5:44).
Since the practice of asking others to pray for us is so highly recommended in Scripture can not be considered superfluous because one can go directly to Jesus. The New Testament would not recommend it if there were no benefits from it. One benefit is such that faith and devotion of the saints can support our own weaknesses and supply what is lacking in our own faith and devotion. Jesus regularly supplied for one person on the faith of another person (eg, Matt. 8:13, 15:28, 17:15-18, Mark 9:17-29, Luke 8:49-55). And it goes without saying that those who are in heaven, being free of the body and the distractions of life, have even greater confidence and devotion to God that no one on earth.
Furthermore, God's answers, in particular, the prayers of the righteous. James declares: "The prayer of the righteous is powerful in its effects. Elijah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed earnestly that no rain, and for three years and six months did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit "(James 5:16-18). However, Christians in heaven are more righteous, since they have to be made perfect in God's presence (Heb. 12:22-23), that nobody on earth is saying his prayers would be even more effective.
Having others praying for us therefore is a good thing, not something to belittle or ignore. Of course, we must pray directly to Christ with every pressing need we have (cf. Jn 14:13-14). That is something that the Catholic Church strongly encourages. In fact, the prayers of the Mass, the central act of Catholic worship, are directed to God and Jesus, not saints. But this does not mean they should also ask our fellow Christians, including those in heaven, to pray with us.
In addition to our prayers directly to God and Jesus (which are absolutely essential to Christian life), there are plenty of reasons to ask our fellow Christians in heaven pray for us. The Bible indicates that they are aware of our prayers, to intercede for us and their prayers are effective (otherwise it would not be offered). It's just narrow-mindedness that suggests that they should refrain from asking our fellow Christians in heaven to do what we know to be anxious and capable of doing.
In heaven and on earth
The Bible directs us to make use of those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus, in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, you his angels, that the powerful who do his word, listening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will "(Psalm 103:20-21). And in Psalm 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord of the heavens, praise him in the highest! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his army "(Psalm 148:1-2).
Not only praying heaven with us, also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[an] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer, and was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God "(Revelation 8:3-4).
And those in heaven offer to God our prayers are not angels but human beings. John sees that "the elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Revelation 5:8 ). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
Overlooking the obvious
Some objections to the concept of praying to the saints betray restricted notions of heaven. One comes from anti-Catholic Loraine Boettner:
"So how can a human being such as Mary hear the prayers of millions of Roman Catholics in many different countries, praying in many different languages all at the same time?
"Let no priest or lay person try to converse with only three people at a time and see how impossible it is for a human being …. The objections against prayers to Mary apply equally against prayers to the saints. For they too are only creatures, infinitely less than God, able to stay in one place at a time and do one thing at a time.
"So, how can they listen and respond to thousands of petitions made simultaneously in many different terrains and in many different languages? Many requests are expressed, not orally, but only mentally, silently. How can Mary and the saints, without being like God, be present everywhere and know the secrets of all hearts? "(Roman Catholicism, 142-143).
If you are in heaven were like being in the room next door, of course these objections would be valid. A mortal, person in the room next unglorified indeed suffer the restrictions imposed by space and time to work in our universe. But saints are not in the next room, and are not subject to the limitations of time / space of this life.
This does not imply that the saints in heaven therefore must be omniscient as God is, it is only through God who wants to communicate with others in heaven or us. And the argument Boettner on requests that come in different languages is even further from the mark. Does anyone really believe that in heaven the saints are restricted to English of the King? After all, it is God who gives the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues. Without doubt, the saints in Revelation understand the prayers that have proven to be an offering to God.
The problem here is one of what might be called a primitive or even childish vision of heaven. It is certainly not one in which enough intellectual rigor has been exercised. A good introduction to the real implications of the afterlife can be found in Frank Sheed's book Theology and Sanity, which argues that mental health depends on an accurate perception of reality, and includes an accurate assessment of what the sky really is. And once known, the place of prayer to saints as follows.
"Straight to Jesus"
Some may concede that the previous objections to asking the saints for their intercession do not work and may even concede that the practice is allowed in theory, however, the question arises that on other grounds, asking why one would want to ask the saints to pray for one. "Why not pray directly to Jesus?" wonder.
The answer: "Of course one should pray directly to Jesus!" But that does not mean it's not good to ask others to pray for one too. Ultimately, the "go-directly-to-Jesus" objection boomerangs back to him who makes it: Why should we ask any Christian, in heaven or on earth to pray for us when we can ask directly Jesus? If the mere fact that we can go straight to Jesus proved that we should ask no Christian in heaven to pray for us then also prove that we should ask no Christian in the world to pray for us.
Praying for others is simply part of what Christians do. As we have seen, in 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Paul strongly encourages Christians to intercede for many different things, and that the move is not unique in his writings. Elsewhere Paul directly asks others to pray for him (Rom. 15:30-32, Eph. 6:18-20, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, 2 Thess. 3:1), and assured them he was praying for them as well (2 Thess. 1:11). More fundamentally, Jesus himself required us to pray for others, not only for those who asked us to do (Matthew 5:44).
Since the practice of asking others to pray for us is so highly recommended in Scripture can not be considered superfluous because one can go directly to Jesus. The New Testament would not recommend it if there were no benefits from it. One benefit is such that faith and devotion of the saints can support our own weaknesses and supply what is lacking in our own faith and devotion. Jesus regularly supplied for one person on the faith of another person (eg, Matt. 8:13, 15:28, 17:15-18, Mark 9:17-29, Luke 8:49-55). And it goes without saying that those who are in heaven, being free of the body and the distractions of life, have even greater confidence and devotion to God that no one on earth.
Furthermore, God's answers, in particular, the prayers of the righteous. James declares: "The prayer of the righteous is powerful in its effects. Elijah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed earnestly that no rain, and for three years and six months did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit "(James 5:16-18). However, Christians in heaven are more righteous, since they have to be made perfect in God's presence (Heb. 12:22-23), that nobody on earth is saying his prayers would be even more effective.
Having others praying for us therefore is a good thing, not something to belittle or ignore. Of course, we must pray directly to Christ with every pressing need we have (cf. Jn 14:13-14). That is something that the Catholic Church strongly encourages. In fact, the prayers of the Mass, the central act of Catholic worship, are directed to God and Jesus, not saints. But this does not mean they should also ask our fellow Christians, including those in heaven, to pray with us.
In addition to our prayers directly to God and Jesus (which are absolutely essential to Christian life), there are plenty of reasons to ask our fellow Christians in heaven pray for us. The Bible indicates that they are aware of our prayers, to intercede for us and their prayers are effective (otherwise it would not be offered). It's just narrow-mindedness that suggests that they should refrain from asking our fellow Christians in heaven to do what we know to be anxious and capable of doing.
In heaven and on earth
The Bible directs us to make use of those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus, in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, you his angels, that the powerful who do his word, listening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will "(Psalm 103:20-21). And in Psalm 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord of the heavens, praise him in the highest! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his army "(Psalm 148:1-2).
Not only praying heaven with us, also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[an] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer, and was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God "(Revelation 8:3-4).
And those in heaven offer to God our prayers are not angels but human beings. John sees that "the elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Revelation 5:8 ). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.
I think it's because I really have no idea about the members to be Christians of "The Body of Christ" and so when we die we are in heaven with Jesus because he is now in heaven and which are a part of intercession they think when they read only one who intercedes between God and man and that is Jesus — well, are part of it. It also says that all of heaven rejoice over one sinner who repents of what it means to us as well.
Hey, if I thought Jesus was praying for me gramma, Allie Christy would be a chocolate cake!
You go for it, girl!
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Catholics regularly bow to idols, icons and images of Jesus, Mary and the apostles, kiss the feet of the statues and praying with them.
Historical note: The Pope deleted 2 of the 10 commandments so they could use statues and images in worship. They broke the 10th commandment into two commandments greed so that it could still be 10 in number. Do not believe this? Look at the list of 10 commandments issued by the Roman Catholic Church! The issue here is not like the Ten Commandments are numbered, but the problem is that most of the published lists of the 10 commandments do not include the words "will not be for you an idol." Open your Catholic Bible and look for yourself. Do you have a mandate to approve 2 nd bowing and kissing idols? "Do not make any idol or any likeness of what is up in heaven or on earth beneath or in the ground water. Not adore or worship. " Exodus 20:4-5
Nowhere in the Bible, even to the idea that Mary was without sin. If she gave birth to the purest the world has ever seen was still considered unclean. Jesus is the only sinless person. That's very misleading to the pope to say that she was. Many Catholics put Mary on a pedestal when it does be there. Jesus said, "I am the way, truth and life. No one comes to the Father except through me ". Meaning of Jesus is the only one to save his soul. Mary can not hear our prayers. The Bible also says we must test all things and keep what is true. It doesn't matter if every pope said it was. The Bible is the word of God. After the word and not the system of religion. The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone but God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers in heaven asking people for their prayers. Why, then, many Catholics pray to Mary and / or the saints, or request their prayers? Catholics view Mary and saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint who is glorified in heaven, has more "direct access" to God than us. Therefore, if a saint offers a prayer to God, is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is clearly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we believers here on earth, can "… approach the throne of grace with confidence … "
Great post —
I b tur said it best:
Many Protestants seem to have an automatic negative reaction to any Catholic. No matter what. Something like
whole basis of their religion is "Well, if Catholics are fer that, by gum I'm Agin 'it"
All I have to say to them is to have a good look at the early history of the Church (honestly) and may end up becoming a Catholic.
Of course it is right to pray to the saints if you want intercession. And I agree that we pray with and for us.
I ask my friends here on earth to pray for me all the time. (God knows we need it ….) Why should not I be able to ask my friends who are in heaven, look at God face to face, to pray for me.
I have two main devotions: to San Jose and San Rafael Arcangel. Both teams have done wonderful things in my life.
"Jesus said:" I am the way, truth and life. No one comes to the Father except through me ".
The veneration of the angels was accepted in the Old Testament, Joshua was prostrate in homage and veneration before an angel (Joshua 5:14) as did Daniel (Daniel8: 17) and Tobias (Tobit12, 16). The Book of Revelation forbids worship of angels ( "worship God alone"), but represents an angel offers the prayers of the saints (rev5:
and of the martyrs under the heavenly altar for interceeding those who suffer on earth (rev6, 9-11).
Talking to the dead (preresurrected) Elijah saints (perhaps taken alive) and Moses at the Transfiguration, Jesus himself gives the example that speak to the saints in heaven or in Limbo Patrum (purgatory?) Is a good thing.
The Apocalypse of St. John
Chapter 5 |
8 And when he opened the book, the four living creatures and the elders fell down before the Lamb, having each a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints
"The prayers of the saints" … the saints in heaven offer Christ the prayers of the faithful on earth.
No the Bible does not teach what you say. And the scriptures you cite talk of angels, saints are not dead.
The Bible clearly says, "Thou shalt not you recorded any images, whether of things in heaven, things on earth or under the earth." How can you equate the presence of idols in the Roman Catholic this Scripture?
Furthermore, the Bible clearly says that Christians can directly approach the throne of grace of God through Jesus Christ, and nobody else. This is evident in the Lord's Prayer. He also claims that we have only 1 mediator between God and man, and man is Jesus Christ. It also tells us that Jesus had brothers and sisters and, therefore, Mary was and is no longer a virgin. It also says that all men have sinned, are fallible, and that includes the Pope and Mary, and that all need salvation. The Bible also teaches only heaven and hell, purgatory or limbo. I could go on and on, but I think I made my point of view
You're right
As Christians, the Catholic Church is wrong with us in prayer to the objects and idols.
And it tells us that we go directly to heaven and there is a soulks all day on November
Obviously have not read the book of revelations
Why will Jesus come again
Why did he judge the living and the dead, if the dead have gone to heaven?
praying to saints is idolatry
sin that offend God, therefore we appeal to the mercy of God as their sin that we have broken
St. Benedict or St. Ignatius
than God, we can forgive, can niether the Pope.
They are just men
niether can a statue or image
Mary, Mother of God can forgive us
This is why the Hail Mary prayer is not in the Bible, because we were not given by God,
but by men who wanted to worship Isis, but its replacement with Mary, not to give the game away
and the need to raise the EHR to a god, as a condition that is requiring the pagan deities
mother son fahter
spirit rather than the son of Holy Father
pray to the saints? why
the saints do not pray for themselves
in Matthew, when a woman says to Jesus, blessed is your mother who bore you
Jesus' answers, rather blessed is he who hears the Word of God and obey ….
That is what a saint, a person who obeys the Word of God and obeys
not a person who has been locked in a convent for 100 years
and the convent is only a pun on sabbath
which is a collective noun for a group of witches
The Bible also says do not pray with beads
While the Catholic Church makes use of rosaries
funny eh
I see nothing in this post too long where the Scripture says that anyone in Heaven.Jesus evoke is the only mediator.
He has quoted a passage tells us to pray to anyone but God.
You mentioned and misunderstood bad Psalm 102. What is actually quoted from Psalms 103 and that badly misquoted.
Here is the true Psalm 103:
20 Praise the Lord, you his angels,
the powerful who do his bidding,
who obey his word.
21 Praise the Lord, all his heavenly hosts,
His servants who do his will.
22 Praise the Lord, all his works,
throughout its domain.
Praise the Lord, my soul.
And Psalm 102:
20 to hear the lamentations of the prisoners
and release of those sentenced to death. "
21 And the name of the LORD will be declared in Zion
and his praise in Jerusalem
22 when the peoples and kingdoms
gather to worship the Lord.
Your question shows how confused and unbiblical Catholic teaching really is. Very, very sad.
Pastor Art
First, this is not really a question but a position that reveals (typical of Catholicism) estimates that in reality the Bible much less than people often disobeyed. And besides, is very evident the error of relying on the respect for the dead to validate prayers for them.
His opening statement, "that the Bible leads us to invoke the sky and ask them to pray with us" is unfounded, since it is a flat contradiction of the Bible,
N, where at any time address the Scripture of the earth to pray to no one in heaven, but the Lord, who "alone is my rock and my salvation" (Psalm 62:2). Despite its controversial desperate units of the earth, or respect does not translate into the production of departed saints nor angels objects of prayer the earth as God alone is worthy of such. When the Bible deals with the issue of an intercessor btwn God and man, it becomes clear that there is only one (1 Timothy 2:5), and only reveals that the souls called directly on him (Acts 7:59, 1Cor. 1:2). When talking to us to approach the throne of grace, it is Jesus who reigns there, and it is not Mary or the saints, but that "lives forever to intercede for them" (Hebrews 7:25)!
Besides, why do we need another mediator between the Lord of heaven and man? Only Jesus is the One in heaven that Scripture says that it is played with the feeling of our infirmities, as only he (not Mary, etc.) was "in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin", and therefore can therefore only identify with our trials and struggles, and enable us to overcome them. The Holy Spirit therefore leads us to come boldly to the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace to help in times of need "(Hebrews 4:14-16).
Since Scripture does not guarantee the prayer to Mary, the general thrust of souls to pray to Mary a lot of pathos current human (or demonic influence), the ethos is not Scripture. The idea that Rome is often conveys that Mary is the intercessor more compassionate, sometimes even stopping the wrath of her Son, and the mother will always listen. Such a notion is blasphemous, and is directly contrary to what Scripture explicitly states, namely, that only Jesus is our great high priest. And where there is no heavenly intercessor between man and Jesus, but the Spirit of Christ. And to slander him is unforgivable.
There is simply no one as qualified as all-sufficient Lord and Savior, and pray to any other intercessor is (saints or angels) in heaven (which, in turn, the Scripture knows nothing of), is both useless and Only the supreme insult to anyone who got that position, and has that power.
And those who do (and the trust in the traditions of men) he is not as Savior, but as the Judge censure.
Ye this is only part of the errors of Rome, in which their souls mostly rely on their self-proclaimed powers and their own merits for eternal life - to their eternal horror - rather than mourn as lost sinners, and releasing all their faith in the risen Lord Jesus and His shed blood for salvation without sin, and a new life after it. You all do now!
You make an excellent argument. However, one can not ignore the fact that know one really knows what happens to you when you die. It also says there is a hell and a heaven. I am sure that Jesus is God, but the rest of us are not. We are human and imperfect. And when we die, we know where we go. This applies to saints. No one has returned from the dead to tell us what happens on the other side. I believe that we worship none but God, and Jesus to illuminate the truth.
I read what you wrote. Now, please explain where it says to no one in heaven pray for us, apart from Jesus intercedes for the saints. Chapter, verse.
God said he sent a avocator in Christ Jesus to go to God on our behalf, did not say saint, s, can not do anything for us,
but Jesus the Son of God can and will.
Pray to whoever you want. Who cares?
This is the wrong doctrine. In Deuteronomy 18:10-12 clearly says necromancy (talking to the dead) is prohibited. The New Testament says that Jesus is our High Priest and Advocate. He sent us to ask the Father in his name and our joy would be complete. N, where in the Bible teaches that we pray to the Virgin or deceased believers. In Luke's Gospel, when Mary was pregnant, mention is made of the covenant of Abraham. That was a pact faith.Any who believes in Jesus is considered a saint, so that their is no need to pray to dead saints as there are a lot of lives of the saints to pray. However, our prayers are with Jesus intercedes for us. The Bible also teaches that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. In heaven, who are praying for us are worshiping with us. All believers in heaven and on earth worship of God. Did you know that Mary was not even a Catholic? The Catholic church began many years after Mary died. The Bible does not say that was assumed into heaven. The Catholic church claims Peter as the first pope, but the Bible does not teach that. In fact, both Peter and Mary were in the top roomwhen the Holy Spirit descended on likea mighty wind blew and tongues of fire came upon them and began to speak in tongues. So the Bible itself teaches that Mary was speaking the language Pentecostal, baptized in the Holy Spirit. So if Mary was born again he would not now be a child of God instead of his mother.Not only that, but Jesus never called his mother Mary. He always refers to her as a woman. And when Jesus told him his mother and brother and sisters were coming to the meeting he had asked: "Who is my mother and my brother and sisters? He replied: "those who believe what he says are his mother and brother and sisters. The Bible is very different from what Catholics have been taught.
The Christian church did Abraham, Isaac and Jacob saints. This is a concept foreign to Judaism.
Blessing of the angels to worship Di-s is not the same as praying with them.
The Catholic Church is a man-made organization that its original purpose was to control the authority of God, to make useless women within the church hierarchy, and to remove the right of individuals to worship God as Jesus ordered.