Comments on: In reference to idols, when Jesus said we are not making idols, he was talking to those who were

By: cristoig

cristoig — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:34:46 +0000

I like most Catholics want to laugh when Protestants say that Catholics worship statues. For a Catholic who is pure foolishness and ignorance. The thing is that we Catholics really agree with the protesters condemning idolatry. However, realize what Catholics and Protestants fail to understand, perhaps because of his hatred of everything Catholic, is that God does not prohibit religious images when used properly. An example is as follows:
(Ex. 25:1 DRB) And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
(Ex. 25:18 DRB) shall make two cherubim of beaten gold, on both sides of the oracle.
(Ex. 25:19 DRB) Come on, a cherub, on one hand and the other in the other.
(Ex. 25:20 DRB) to cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look towards each other, their faces turned toward the mercy with which the ark is to be covered.
(Ex. 26:1 DRB) And thou shalt make the tabernacle this way: Thou shalt make ten curtains of fine twisted linen, and purple and purple and scarlet twice dyed, diversified with embroidery.
Here God is saying that religious images are welcome.
God speaks to us of how Aaron's garments should be decorated:
(Ex. 28:33 DRB) And beneath the feet of the same tunic, round, do what you are pomegranates, of violet and purple, and scarlet twice dyed, with little bells set between:
(Ex. 28:34 DRB) So there will be a golden bell and a pomegranate, and again another golden bell and a pomegranate.
God tells Moses to make a sculpture of a snake to cure snake bites and as people began to worship the king who destroyed:
(Numbers 21:8 DRB) And the Lord said: Ask a bronze serpent and set it up to a sign: whosoever being beaten look at it, shall live.
(Numbers 21:9 DRB) therefore Moses made a bronze serpent and set it to a signal: that when he was bitten watching were cured.
(2 Kings 18:4 DRB) destroyed the high places and broke the statues in pieces, and cut the forests, and broke the brazen serpent that Moses had done, because until then the children of Israel burned incense to it: Nohestan and called his name.
Notice what God said about the temple:
(1 Kings 6:12 DRB) As for this house, that construction is you, if you NEWS walk in my statutes, and execute my judgments, and keep all my commandments, walking in them, I will fulfill my word to you, who spoke to David your father. (Emphasis added)
(1 Kings 6:13 DRB), and I will dwell among the children of Israel, and I will not forsake my people Israel.
(1 Kings 6:14 DRB) So Solomon built the house, and finished it.
Solomon's temple was adorned with sculptures and statues:
(1 Kings 7:25 DRB) And I was sitting on twelve oxen, three of whom looked to the north and three west and three south, three east, and the sea was above them, and their hinder parts were hidden inside.
(1 Kings 7:36 DRB) also recorded on the plates, which were of brass, and in the corners, cherubs and lions, and palm trees, like a man standing, so that did not seem to be recorded, but added around.
Scripture tells us that Solomon's wisdom came from God:
(1 Kings 3:1 DRB) And the kingdom was established in the hand of Solomon, and he made affinity with Pharaoh king of Egypt, because he took his daughter and brought her to the city of David, until he had made an end of building his own house and the house of the Lord and the wall around Jerusalem.
(1 Kings 3:2 DRB), yet the people sacrificed in high places: for there was no temple built in the name of the Lord until that day.
(1 Kings 3:3 DRB) and Solomon loved God, walking in the precepts of David his father, only sacrificed in high places, and burned incense.
(1 Kings 3:4 DRB) was therefore Gibeon to sacrifice there: for that was the high place: a thousand victims of the holocaust, did Solomon offer upon that altar at Gibeon.
(1 Kings 3:5 DRB) And the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream at night, saying: Ask what I shall give thee.
(1 Kings 3:6 DRB) And Solomon said, Thou hast great mercy to thy servant David my father, as he walked before thee in truth and justice, and a right heart with you and you have kept your great mercy him and have given a son to sit on his throne, as it is today.
(1 Kings 3:7 DRB) And now, Lord God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father, and I am a child, not knowing how to exit and enter;
(1 Kings 3:8 DRB) And thy servant is in the midst of people you have chosen, a great people, which can not be numbered nor counted for multitude.
(1 Kings 3:9 DRB) Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, and discern between good and evil. To be able to judge these people, your people, which is so large?
(1 Kings 3:10 DRB) and the word was pleasing to the Lord, that Solomon had asked such a thing.
(1 Kings 3:11 DRB) And the Lord said to Solomon: Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life or riches or the life of your enemies, but hast asked for wisdom to know you jndgment ;
(1 Kings 3:12 DRB): Behold, I have done for you according to your words, and I have taken a wise and understanding heart, while there's no one like you before thee, neither after thee shall arise .
(1 Kings 3:13 DRB) Yes, and also the things you do not ask, I have given, namely, riches and glory: so that no one has been like thee among the kings of every day so far.
(1 Kings 3:14 DRB) And if you want to walk in my ways and keep my commandments and my commandments, as thy father walked, I will lengthen thy days.
(1 Kings 3:15 DRB) and Solomon woke up and saw it was a dream, and when he came to Jerusalem, stood before the ark of the LORD and offered burnt offerings and sacrificial victims of peace offerings, and made a big party for all his servants.
(1 Kings 3:16 DRB) Then came two women who were prostitutes, the king, and before him.
(1 Kings 3:17 DRB) and one of them said: I pray thee, my lord, I and this woman lived in a house, and I gave birth to a son with her in the chamber.
(1 Kings 3:18 DRB) And the third day after it was delivered, was also delivered, and we were together, and no other person with us in the house, only two of us.
(1 Kings 3:19 DRB) and this woman's child died in the night: the sleep she overlaid it.
(1 Kings 3:20 DRB) And rising in the dead time of night, she took my son from me, while I, your servant, was asleep, and put it in his bosom, and laid her dead child in my breast.
(1 Kings 3:21 DRB) And when I got up in the morning to give my child suck, behold it was dead, but considering most diligently, when day was clear, I found that I was not mine had.
(1 Kings 3:22 DRB) And the other woman replied, not how sayst you, but your son is dead, and mine is alive. By contrast, he said, lie: that my son lives, and your son is dead. And so they strove before the king.
(1 Kings 3:23 DRB) And the king said: He who says: My son is alive, and your son is dead. But the other: "No, but your son is dead, and my lives.
(1 Kings 3:24 DRB) The king then said, "Bring me a sword. And when he had brought a sword before the king,
(1 Kings 3:25 DRB) divide, he said, the living child in two and give half to one and a half to the other.
(1 Kings 3:26 DRB) But the woman whose son was alive, "said the king, (for his guts were transferred to his son) I beg you, my lord, give her the living child, not kill him. But the other said: Let it be neither mine nor you, but divide it.
(1 Kings 3:27 DRB) The king answered and said: Give the living child to this woman, and do not let them died, because she is the mother thereof.
(1 Kings 3:28 DRB) And all Israel heard the sentence which the king had judged, and they feared the king, as the wisdom of God was in him to do justice.
God was not upset by what Solomon had done:
(1 Kings 9:3 DRB) And the Lord said: I heard thy prayer and thy supplication that you have done before me: I have consecrated this house which thou hast built, to put my name forever, and my eyes and heart will be there forever.
The question to those who condemn Catholic practices in terms of images is why the evidence that the images can please God when they ask for our minds to God, you condemn them when it pleases God. After all, Christ Himself is called the image (eikon) of the invisible God:
(Col 1:15 DRB) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
In Christ
Fr Joseph

By: cbmultip

cbmultip — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:34:46 +0000

Sorry, Mary, Joseph and any other saint are all dead! The only way to God is through Jesus Christ His Son … not the other … that can help.
And why is that the Catholic version of the Bible of the 10 commandments do not include this commandment? Does not the Bible also says that no one should add or subtract from the Bible.

By: mathaown

mathaown — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:34:46 +0000

I understand - that is not centered on the object, but the THT person it represents. Catholics do not worship idols, more than other Christian cults necklasses his cross.
But the Egyptians did not pray to statues either. They prayed, and still do, the God or Goddess that represents. It's the same concept that Catholics have.

By: never again

never again — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:34:46 +0000

I do not care for these idols or figures especially when made in a communist country and sold or given to the faithful. I am suspicious that supposedly have no likeness of Jesus and Mary and I'm annoyed by how people have used his image for display or race. I suppose that when Jesus ever did return anyone to recognize anyone. If you will not be a false Messiah, or Christ, I wonder if it would be exactly like Jesus, as a clone.

By: Talullah Leaping Water

*Talullah* Leaping Water — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:34:46 +0000

Agreed ….
While I am not Catholic - I've always had great respect for PPL to this faith. I learned a lot through this site and give it to someone feel i do not understand and want to hear the truth. God bless you for sharing - you know those who do not want to hear or learn - it's their loss. You know the truth - that's what matters.

By: The Cub

The Cub — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:34:46 +0000

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ has been set forth, crucified among you?" (cf. Gal 3:1) http://home.inreach. com / bstanley / idol.ht …
Deut. 4:15 - this verse, Protestants say that since he saw "no way" the Lord, recorded images should not do it.
Deut. 4:16 - of course, in the early history of Israel was forbidden to make images of God, because God has not yet reveal himself visibly "in the form of any figure."
Deut. 4:17-19 - Therefore, the Israelites had represented God not yet revealed who might be tempted to worship in the form of an animal, bird, reptile or fish, which is a common misconception of time.
Exodus 3:2-3, Dan 7:9, Matt. 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32, Acts 2:3 - later, however, we see that God revealed in visible form (as a dove, fire, etc.).
Deut. 5:8 - God's commandment "Thou shall not make an idol" is fully connected to the worship of false gods. God does not forbid images used in worship, but bans images of themselves to be worshiped.
Exodus 25:18-22, 26:1,31 - for example, God orders the making of the image of a gold cherub. This image of heaven, of course, is worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image you have of their minds to the supernatural and calls God.
Num 21:8-9 - God also commands the execution of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that raises the spirit of the supernatural.
I Kings 6:23-36, 7:27-39, 8:6-67 - Solomon's temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.
2 Kings 18:4 - it was only when people began to worship the statue that incur the wrath of God and the king destroyed it. The order prohibits the use of recorded images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images.
1 Chronicles. 28:18-19 - David Solomon gives plan for the refined gold altar with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews' most solemn place of worship.
2 Chron. 3:7-14 - the house was full of gold with elaborate cherubim carved in wood and covered in gold.
Ez. 41:15 - Ezekiel describes the images recorded on the church has carved portraits of cherubs. These are similar to images of angels and saints in many Catholic churches.
Col. 1:15 - the only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ who is the "image" (Greek "Eikon") of the invisible God. http://www.catholic.com/library/Do_Catho http://scripturecatholic.com/sacramental … …

By: River

River — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:34:46 +0000

What I find amusing is how people say that Catholics do not pray to statues …. I do not have a problem with. The problem I have is that they do not realize that the Egyptians and other pagan idols do not pray to the idols themselves into thinking they were gods. They used them in the exact same sense that Christians use the cross today …. is simply a point of focus, so that the images closer to the "prayer".
I would say that misinformation is rampant and people tend to like the truth.